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Poll: Which reset method (stats/skill/class) would you prefer for ToS?
Restricted Reset: You have to spend a reasonable in-game currency to buy it or get it from Cash Shop.
Free reset!: Anytime, anywhere. Reset is just 1 click away.
Free for limited uses: per month, week, day, etc.
Quest-linked reset
Costs in-game money
No resets ever
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[Poll] Skill/Stat Reset discussion
#1
Question 
I think even FS builds should have solo options. This would work out a lot better if you had free skill/stat resets whenever you wanted, or at least a semi-cheap skill/stat reset you could buy from tool shop venders like in La Tale.

But things like Heal and Cure doing damage to mobs, they could make it so many support skills could still have solo options. I don't want to depend on having a FS player just to play the game at higher levels. RO already sucked because of that, ToS should learn from it.

And I don't mind if partying is the fastest way to level, or even the best, I just mind if it's the only way where soloing simply isn't an option or viable for self sustaining levels, silver, and gearing.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
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#2
Yeah, soloing should always be an available option, regardless of what type of class you are, that would be nice :3
[Image: Io%20Otonashi.jpg]
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#3
(04-28-2015, 08:12 AM)SOC Wrote: I think even FS builds should have solo options. This would work out a lot better if you had free skill/stat resets whenever you wanted, or at least a semi-cheap skill/stat reset you could buy from tool shop venders like in La Tale.

But things like Heal and Cure doing damage to mobs, they could make it so many support skills could still have solo options. I don't want to depend on having a FS player just to play the game at higher levels. RO already sucked because of that, ToS should learn from it.

And I don't mind if partying is the fastest way to level, or even the best, I just mind if it's the only way where soloing simply isn't an option or viable for self sustaining levels, silver, and gearing.

I disagree with free skill/stat resets. That would encourage a hell of a lot of min maxing and the game would be all about the meta to the point where more and more players will only play with other players who have a specific type of build. It would be more pressure in a way and there would only be very few builds endgame. Endgame min/maxing meta could also "decide" what classes should be played and some other classes may be shunned.  You briefly covered that when you brought having to have a FS player for RO endgame.

Skill/stat resets should cost something, either a "not-so-cheap" zeny price or a very cheap CS item. I prefer to zeny. But yes, even a FS should have viable solo options. 
AFK formation because I'm lazy  Sleepy

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#4
(04-28-2015, 11:06 AM)Terrell David Wrote: I disagree with free skill/stat resets. That would encourage a hell of a lot of min maxing and the game would be all about the meta to the point where more and more players will only play with other players who have a specific type of build. It would be more pressure in a way and there would only be very few builds endgame. Endgame min/maxing meta could also "decide" what classes should be played and some other classes may be shunned.  You briefly covered that when you brought having to have a FS player for RO endgame.

Skill/stat resets should cost something, either a "not-so-cheap" zeny price or a very cheap CS item. I prefer to zeny. But yes, even a FS should have viable solo options. 

Isn't there going to be min/maxing regardless of skill/stat resets? It would just make it so you don't have to start over when you didn't follow your guide 100% correctly and/or accidentally clicked a wrong button or your build became outdated and useless due to patches, meta evolving and/or content updates. I'm pretty sure there's going to be min/max meta with very view end game builds and specific required classes and shunned classes regardless of free resets.

But I am fine for it costing something, just not too expensive and not cash shop. This kind of game begs you to try a lot of different stuff and if it's too expensive then it feels really bad and contradictory.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
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#5
As long as the game is using different values across classes (stat, skill/spell, damage formula, etc etc) and not fixed for each (same fixed values for DPS/Tanker/Healer/Support classes), there will always be min/max meta and priority classes for each class type at endgame I think... (DPS/Tank/Healer/Support)
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#6
(04-28-2015, 08:12 AM)SOC Wrote: I think even FS builds should have solo options. This would work out a lot better if you had free skill/stat resets whenever you wanted, or at least a semi-cheap skill/stat reset you could buy from tool shop venders like in La Tale.

But things like Heal and Cure doing damage to mobs, they could make it so many support skills could still have solo options. I don't want to depend on having a FS player just to play the game at higher levels. RO already sucked because of that, ToS should learn from it.

And I don't mind if partying is the fastest way to level, or even the best, I just mind if it's the only way where soloing simply isn't an option or viable for self sustaining levels, silver, and gearing.

In case there are stat/skill reset available in game...
i prefer stat/skill reset only obtainable via quest (may even be a repeatable quest to ensure u can get them every time they nerf/power up a skill), BUT a really tedious or long one, to make sure people reset their build only to get their ideal character, not to change it every time they want to switch between pvp / pve scenario.
for the people who want to maximize their dmg or build their ideal character i think its fine to spend a long time to grind for reset scroll, but it will hinder people who want to use the resets to make their character dominate BOTH pve and pvp scenario (assuming the build for both scenario are different) by resetting each time they want to switch
It would be better if its not a scroll or something that can be stacked and stored but you just need to complete it EVERY time u want to reset, so you can't accumulate the reset (just an npc or whatever)
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#7
(04-29-2015, 07:19 AM)Ian Danarko Wrote: i prefer stat/skill reset only obtainable via quest (may even be a repeatable quest to ensure u can get them every time they nerf/power up a skill), BUT a really tedious or long one, to make sure people reset their build only to get their ideal character, not to change it every time they want to switch between pvp / pve scenario.

Why? If that's the case then they need to have two separate "builds" that we use, one for PvE and one for PvP so we don't have to make boring, slow "PvP" characters that require leeching and awful long grinding times just to start PvP'ng. I'm already worried about things like Squire/Alchemist/Pardoner/Fletcher.

I really don't see the problem with changing your build anytime you want, you're already locked in with your class change and circle choices. Diablo 3 lets you and it's one of the best things about it. I'd kill to have any game follow its footsteps.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
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#8
I seriously doubt "pvp" buids are going to have difficulty in pve in TOS. Many of the support characters have the ability to do some serious damage as well (lol dievdirbys). Not to mention the ridiculous amount of class combinations that would allow you to invest in a dps skill or two. Full dps builds aren't going to cut it since bosses can 1-2 hit ko. And the only reason people didn't even bother investing in other stats is because of free revives, but revives will likely cost cash on release.

Skill reset/stat reset will likely be cash shop. But even if it was free, having to reset skills/stats every single time you wanted to pve/pvp is annoying and tedious. If you really have a fetish for optimization, then make multiple characters. They give you barracks for a reason...
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#9
Leveling up multiple characters for PvE and PvP isn't good game design, and there's little point to it if you plan on using the same class/circle routes. That's why I think free resets is fine, especially in a game like this. Some bosses (especially late game) or dungeons will require different builds for that specific dungeon or boss: being denied the opportunity to participate in them because you built a different way is really stupid. Not being able to join a party because they want you to have these specific skills (that are usually boring but strong) and having to re-level a character like that is stupid. Besides, with free resets, you could just level up with skills that are good for leveling then switch later as you're high for something better. Being able to change freely would mean you could be prepared for any situation and build to counter your enemies. That's how good game design should work. Your commitment feeling should come from your class and circle choices, not your skill/stat builds.

I also imagine a lot of late game tanks for PvP/guild wars/end game bossing/dungeons will be very tanky with lots of crowd control/defensive buffs with very little damage. Having to level up with very little damage (and if you build any damage on a tank you'll be useless later since you wasted points/skills not being more tanky) is extremely boring, and often requires leeching. Any game that requires leeching isn't good game design.

Skill/stat point distribution is an illusion of customization. There are only a few optimal builds and you must use them to participate. This means you will have to commit from the beginning to them, and most of them will not be damage based. It isn't fun trying to level up characters who don't deal much damage. You'll see a lot of people selling leeching services if there aren't easy skill/stat resets.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
İmageİmage

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#10
(04-29-2015, 10:49 AM)SOC Wrote: Besides, with free resets, you could just level up with skills that are good for leveling then switch later as you're high for something better. Being able to change freely would mean you could be prepared for any situation and build to counter your enemies. That's how good game design should work. Your commitment feeling should come from your class and circle choices, not your skill/stat builds.

It isn't fun trying to level up characters who don't deal much damage. You'll see a lot of people selling leeching services if there aren't easy skill/stat resets.

That wound make the game very easy dont you think? free resetting anytime you want is just op imo.

And that makes the game interesting if your character is more on pvp character than means you'll be bad at monster hunting and you would need leeching( bus ride in korea found in "The Gamer" Manhwa) to level up fast just to be a pvp character.
The want of one affects others.
- Dondex
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