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Poll: Which reset method (stats/skill/class) would you prefer for ToS?
Restricted Reset: You have to spend a reasonable in-game currency to buy it or get it from Cash Shop.
Free reset!: Anytime, anywhere. Reset is just 1 click away.
Free for limited uses: per month, week, day, etc.
Quest-linked reset
Costs in-game money
No resets ever
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[Poll] Skill/Stat Reset discussion
#21
(04-29-2015, 01:56 PM)holmwood Wrote: In my opinion, the more practical way of doing what you're proposing is to just get rid of the stats system and focus mainly on gear and crafting... or at least minimize the importance of stats in terms of attack and defense. That way you can have gear that specifically helps you for pvp and gear that specifically helps you for pve. This isn't by all means a new system either. And it sure isn't as much of a hassle as resetting stats and memorizing how many points go into what.  It isn't going to fix the skills issue, of course. That is why I also think they should just get rid of skill points and just focus on upgrading skills with attributes. Why give players that many skill options but force players to forsake half of the available skills due to limited skill points?  Undecided
What you're suggesting is basically Diablo 3. It's really good because of it, you should try it. I really wish more games would mimic it because it does it so well.


(04-29-2015, 02:45 PM)Dondex Calo Torralba Wrote: why is it so OP? because you can just be a type of class you want makes the game "EASY". lol "useless" hahaha you have a weapon with a base damage and I think when you create a new character you already have a base stats so dont worry you wont level up as a 0 damage character. Leeching, I could say its good in any game because you dont want to repeat the story over and over again right? And yes being able to switch to what's "BEST" for the situation is good and healthy for the game yes I agree with that but its easy. Did you see Steparu's 2nd cbt preview? he said "As an experienced TOS Closed Beta Tester, the game still felt a bit too easy."  you still want the game more easier? tho maybe they will buff up the bosses in next cbt, its just maybe becuase most people was satisfied with it.

I believe it will.

The game will likely be designed for you to have to build very specifically or be useless, I'm not sure how much weapon damage will play in (espeically later) vs. stats, skills, buffs and gems. If you don't want to repeat the story, they've also said they designed the game to allow for grind parties and exploration so you don't feel limited to just questing all the time. The enemies are supposed to be easy in the beta I think, because the beta is here to test features and look for bugs, not to have fun, check balance or numbers. I'm definitely expecting enemies to be much harder (especially after they address jumping and kiting) by the time it's released, especially late game.

I really don't think leeching is healthy at all and definitely should never be a "thing" for any game, especially this one. You should have to actively participate (and be able to contribute in a significant way individually) in grind parties no matter your class, and resets allow for that to a reasonable extent.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
İmageİmage

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#22
(04-29-2015, 02:53 PM)SOC Wrote: The game will likely be designed for you to have to build very specifically or be useless,
 If you don't want to repeat the story, they've also said they designed the game to allow for grind parties and exploration so you don't feel limited to just questing all the time.
The enemies are supposed to be easy in the beta I think, because the beta is here to test features and look for bugs, not to have fun, check balance or numbers. I'm definitely expecting enemies to be much harder (especially after they address jumping and kiting) by the time it's released, especially late game.

I really don't think leeching is healthy at all and definitely should never be a "thing" for any game, especially this one. You should have to actively participate (and be able to contribute in a significant way individually) in grind parties no matter your class, and resets allow for that to a reasonable extent.

lol another with the useless word again I dont know if there are useless builds in this game..
Thats when the leecher comes.
yes it was so easy in cbt1 1 and made harder in cbt 2 it made harder just because of random traps its not even a boss' skill -.-.. and in the late game if its really hard making a character thats "type of class like int swordsman maybe" thats when the leecher comes.

depends on your style if thats your style to participate in the party and dont want to get a leecher then its yours to decide anyway can you tell me why you hate leeching?
The want of one affects others.
- Dondex
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#23
I think this is a player mentality issue more than a game mechanics issue. In my personal opinion, there is no "best build" and there is no "useless build". Furthermore, I refuse to party with someone who's quick to discriminate against another player because he/she is not using the optimal build. I find that attitude disgusting.
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#24
In my opinion, from playing private servers of RO, stat/skill resets is bad and good...

Good, because you can experiment with your class to achieve the best build possible for your playstyle (either PvP or PvE)
Bad, because it makes you indecisive, and from roleplaying point of view, kinda reduce my attachment to my character, because I'm not thinking hard enough for my character. I'll just raise whatever I want because I knew I can fix the mistakes later with resets, and I feel uneasy with that (because that's not what we learned in real world, we learned that life is not easy, and you need to think twice before making a decision).

I would rather have only 1~3 free resets for each character you play, after that just put them in cash shop.
[Image: Io%20Otonashi.jpg]
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#25
if resetting is obtainable I'd recommend a long grinding quest to get a reset skill/stats and repeatable once a week and can be bought through real money for those who uses real money ofc
The want of one affects others.
- Dondex
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#26
(04-29-2015, 03:22 PM)Dondex Calo Torralba Wrote: lol another with the useless word again I dont know if there are useless builds in this game..
Thats when the leecher comes.
yes it was so easy in cbt1 1 and made harder in cbt 2 it made harder just because of random traps its not even a boss' skill -.-.. and in the late game if its really hard making a character thats "type of class like int swordsman maybe" thats when the leecher comes.

depends on your style if thats your style to participate in the party and dont want to get a leecher then its yours to decide anyway can you tell me why you hate leeching?

We won't know for sure until it happens, but given the past of every other (Korean or not) MMO ever including RO, that's how it usually ends up. You're either optimal or useless. If you're useless then no one will ever want you for anything, you won't be able to participate in any content (end game or not), you won't be able to solo or make money without completely relying on others... and that's bad.

Leeching encourages toxic behavior and game play. I'm not even sure why I need to be asked "why do I hate leeching" honestly... AFKing while getting levels isn't fun for either player. An economy supported by leeching isn't fun. Gameplay that is detracted from leeching isn't fun. When a game requires a "short cut" to reach the fun content, it's badly designed. When that short cut involves you not doing anything, it's even worse.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
İmageİmage

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#27
(04-29-2015, 04:28 PM)SOC Wrote:
(04-29-2015, 03:22 PM)Dondex Calo Torralba Wrote: lol another with the useless word again I dont know if there are useless builds in this game..
Thats when the leecher comes.
yes it was so easy in cbt1 1 and made harder in cbt 2 it made harder just because of random traps its not even a boss' skill -.-.. and in the late game if its really hard making a character thats "type of class like int swordsman maybe" thats when the leecher comes.

depends on your style if thats your style to participate in the party and dont want to get a leecher then its yours to decide anyway can you tell me why you hate leeching?

We won't know for sure until it happens, but given the past of every other (Korean or not) MMO ever including RO, that's how it usually ends up. You're either optimal or useless. If you're useless then no one will ever want you for anything, you won't be able to participate in any content (end game or not), you won't be able to solo or make money without completely relying on others... and that's bad.

Leeching encourages toxic behavior and game play. I'm not even sure why I need to be asked "why do I hate leeching" honestly... AFKing while getting levels isn't fun for either player. An economy supported by leeching isn't fun. Gameplay that is detracted from leeching isn't fun. When a game requires a "short cut" to reach the fun content, it's badly designed. When that short cut involves you not doing anything, it's even worse.

Isn't the resets also considered "short cut" since the normal way would be thinking twice before we spend our stat/skill points? And you want it to be free, which means a short cut involves you not doing anything :o

Also, I don't mind leeching if it's for like, a friend left behind in level because (s)he is not online as much as of his/her friends. But if your point is just to avoid the need to raise another char for different needs, just put 1~3 free resets for each char, so that they can go PvE build to max their level, then reset to their playstyle choice (PvP/PvE/PvM/WoE). But if you can just be all kind of playstyle with ONE chara, I think that's far too...rewarding? xD
[Image: Io%20Otonashi.jpg]
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#28
ye we wont know unless we play the game itself, every character is specializes in its own way I dont know why your seeing them useless... there are just some characters that is really good on party play but really bad on soloing.

I dont know why youre seeing leech like that and you dont even give leech some good points. I am seeing leech as good aspect of the game making your way faster to get the class type you want while getting some coins and items while leveling. I am still not quite sure about party system if the exp will give it to the party in whole map or not.
The want of one affects others.
- Dondex
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#29
(04-29-2015, 04:43 PM)Vandel Dobrowski Wrote: Isn't the resets also considered "short cut" since the normal way would be thinking twice before we spend our stat/skill points? And you want it to be free, which means a short cut involves you not doing anything :o

Also, I don't mind leeching if it's for like, a friend left behind in level because (s)he is not online as much as of his/her friends. But if your point is just to avoid the need to raise another char for different needs, just put 1~3 free resets for each char, so that they can go PvE build to max their level, then reset to their playstyle choice (PvP/PvE/PvM/WoE). But if you can just be all kind of playstyle with ONE chara, I think that's far too...rewarding? xD
That's a big reason why I think games that let you add stat points and force you to put points into skills are becoming out dated and inferior game design. It would be best if you just had access to every skill but had a limit on how many you could "equip" at once, while picking which traits you want on your skills that make them do different things (which is what characteristics are right now). So you'd equip and pick the correct traits for that particular map, enemy type and what your party needed at that time, constantly switching (not in combat) so that you're never useless and can always contribute. The problem with 1~3 free resets limited is just that: you're still limited and that would be very bad for content updates and meta changes. I guess we could do something like 2 free resets a month that don't stack.

You wouldn't be able to do all playstyle with one character considering you're still limited by your class/circle choices, but at least you could switch out Stone Curse for something else when you didn't need it in that dungeon or against that boss, for example.

(04-29-2015, 04:52 PM)Dondex Calo Torralba Wrote: ye we wont know unless we play the game itself, every character is specializes in its own way I dont know why your seeing them useless... there are just some characters that is really good on party play but really bad on soloing.

I dont know why youre seeing leech like that and you dont even give leech some good points. I am seeing leech as good aspect of the game making your way faster to get the class type you want while getting some coins and items while leveling. I am still not quite sure about party system if the exp will give it to the party in whole map or not.

Well, one thing I fear is for the shield swordsman classes to become inferior and useless unless they put every single stat point into vit, not a single point into str, and then they deal 0 damage and are only useful for meat shields and CC. When we look at the game right now, it doesn't seem like that would happen, but who knows what it will be like late game? I think every class should have viable solo options, but I'm totally fine with some being better than others. You just shouldn't ever not be able to solo, no matter what you play.

It shouldn't take that long in the first place where leeching feels like the right option. The game should be designed so that you never feel like you need to leech. There are just too many bad points for leeching that make it impossible to bring out any good points that are worthwhile IMO.
Diablo 2 -> MapleStory -> Ragnarok Online -> FFXI -> La Tale -> Dragon Nest -> Diablo 3 -> Tree of Savior
İmageİmage

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#30
thats what you fear? to be unable to solo? if you put all your stats into vit and your skills are more on cc that means your more on party play far more than soloing. Why would you want to solo if thats the way you want it to be? cc is the best skill in pve wonder whats so inferior about that on party playin.
The want of one affects others.
- Dondex
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