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Feedback for Wizard, Pyromancer, Psychokino, Chronomancer and Sorcerer
#1
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Hello, I have been focusing on the Wizard classes this CB to get a feel for what each class offers and how each ability interacts with the game and compares to one another. All feedback will be based on PvE. I feel like the core skills of any ability for any class of any archetype should only take PvE in account. No skill should be made unreliable or uneffective in PvE due to PvP reasons. If IMC wishes to balance PvP, they should give certain skills seperate values exclusive towards PvP. I do question if there is a way to fairly balance PvP though given the sheer amount of diversity and build paths available to each character.

Wizard:

Like with any base class, you don't really expect all the abilities to be super worthwhile for circle 1. However, the further circles are actually very lacking when compared to other options by a very long stretch which leaves much to be desired.

Sleep can be pretty useful at times as it is a lingering CC aoe more or less. I would say that one issue with it, and this is an issue with any debuff-oriented abilities, is it will fail a fair few times. This makes the ability unreliable and inherently frustrating. Thus, it feels more like a last ditch effort skill which will quickly make it an ability that is rarely if ever used. I can understand a Base class circle 1 ability being a bit iffy for CC though so that's okay. The issue is there doesn't seemt o be a raise in success chance with higher circle investments

Legarthy feels pretty useless to me. I don't feel that its effect is worthwhile enough to be worth the time and sp to cast. It does have a Attribute that inceases damage from strike hits by 20% (5 lvls) which would potentially make it worthwhile. However, the levels in this attribute do not do anything. It apparently will only add 20% more strike damage even with 5 levels in the attribute. This means either the attribute is bugged or the attribute should only be 1 level. I feel like Legathy would be worthwhile if it was actually possible to raise strike damage by 100%. I would reccomend though that this % be reduced for bosses. Maybe 35% or 50%. I say this because of how powerful it would be down the line. For solo it doesn't seem to affect much other than your basic attack though which isn't very viable for the majority of the game. Eventually Basic Attacks are just too weak or wizard to widdle down mobs for effective dps.

Energy Bolt does what you'd think it does. It's a straight foward burst of damage that has a small AoE and Knockback effect. It is mostly useful early on, but, it can be viable later as well if you raise the attribute damage very high. You need to raise it pretty high for this to be the case so I wouldn't reccomend leveling the attribute for this at all until you can get it to 50% or higher in one go.

Earthquake. Early on, this is a really nifty AoE due to its sheer size and can even offer some CC to enemies vulnerable to knockdown. Later on, it'll mostly just be used as an emergency CC if all other CC is on cooldown. So, rarely used. If your build path lacks AoE, you can boost the attribute damage very high if you are desperate, but it isn't going to be all too reliable for AoEing regardless.

Reflect Shield is okay I guess. For many instances, it won't be worth the sp. In parties, it isn't really worth the buff slot unless it's at a fairly high level. I wouldn't say that a high level of Reflect Shield is a good incentive to stay with Wizard C2 or C3 though. It doesn't really add anything to the most important aspect of solo play or even really party play, which is effective damage output. I personally feel that this skill should cap at 10 in Circle 2 and offer full benefits at that point.

Surespell. It seems like it's important on paper. But, it really isn't. if it were, many people would be going Wizard 2 just so they could play the game without constantly being interupted. But, this isn't the case. You don't really run into issues with being interupted much as wizard. The only exception is perhaps Meteor but that is just one ability really, I don't think this buff alone makes Wizard 2 a realistic choice over other Rank options.

Quickcast is a bit better as it can contribute to DPS at least, but on its own it is very lackluster compared to what you have given up to get it. If Wizard 2 and 3 offered more, I'd say that this buff was worth getting but right now it is just too punishing.

MagicMissile. I'm guessing this is the skill that was supposed to make getting Surespell and Quickcast worth it enough, but it is actually rather lacking. It simply doesn't have high enough damage output. Not even close actually. This skill would need a huge buff to even remotely make Wizard 3 worthwhile enough for damage output in my opinion.

My final note on Wizard overall is that it really needs another AoE ability in 2 or 3 to make this build path worthwhile enough to pick over other paths. Magic Missile is also very disapointing. I also think that not all abilities should go to 15, I think this is a good example of abilities that just don't offer enough to be worth so much investment. I feel like the mere potential to sink 15 points in say, Legarthy, is a medicore character waiting to happen.

Pyromancer:

Pyromancer is a class that offers a lot, thus many may think the class is just fine, but that is faulty reasoning. Just because a class has good abilities overall, doesn't mean it doesn't have some stinkers and iffy mechanics that shouldn't be looked at.

Fireball. This in many ways makes the class. It starts out as a decent ability and grows into a massive powerhouse ability. As amazing as this skill is, it has some issues. The minor issue first, is that the burning attribute is a bit lackluster as the 5 seconds added to cooldown extremely hurts your DPS for the burning effect you gain which barely does anything at all. This seems like an oversight to me but why have an attribute that excessively hurts a skills cooldown that barely offers anything to it? I feel like it would be a fine addition if it did not affect the cooldown. The increased sp cost is really all that is warranted. The second, and major issue with fireball, is that it is very uneffective in parties and is vulnerable to player abuse. What I'm referring to is other players can move your fire balls with their melee attacks and skills. This pretty much means if you want to use your best ability you need to hope no one in your party is melee or has melee abilities. I get the idea behind it is neat, but it hurts the skill extremely and causes strife in parties. I can't say enough how much better it would be if only the wizard who casted the spell has the ability to move it.

Firewall. This is a skill that starts off really really bad, like super bad. But eventually gets pretty good. I feel like this skill should cap at 10 and that each level should offer a lot more to make it a viable option compared to the other skills.

Flare. This skill needs a huge buff, like, extremely huge. Even if you were to condense all 15 levels into 5, it still wouldn't be worth getting, it is that bad. I would make it so that each charge hits multiple times based on the level of flare to burning enemies. This would make it a viable burst option that has some synergy. As of now, it is one of the most useless skills ever though.

Fireground is pretty amazing. In some ways, it is better than Fireball. It lasts an extremely long time and can hit endless enemies, it is really an amazing skill. I would prefer if the AoE size was as it was before, but it's so good that I can't really complain about that.

Fire Pillar is actually really really good. It does require full investment to actually be worthwhile but it is quite effective. I would suggest reducing the cooldown time a fair bit though, maybe every minute or so, as an over 2 minute cooldown feels a it excessive in wait time for the pace of combat in this game.

Fire Breath. It's actually pretty good, especially with high attribute investment. It does drain a ton of sp very fast though so I can see how someone might argue that it be made better in some way. Maybe have it only drain sp rather than having a sp cost and sp drain?

Pyro is one of the better classes, but again, that doesn't mean all the skills are fine as is.

Psychokino:

This is one of those classes I really wanted to love. The idea of using the mind and nifty teleports and such sounded so pleasing to me. Unfortunately, this is a class plagued by many poor abilities. I feel like this class is a victem of PvP balancing at the expense of PvE which is a huge sin for a game like this.

Pyschic Pressure. I hope you like this skill because it's honestly your only truly good one. Unfortunately, you need circle 2 to get the attribute that makes it viable because if you are hit, you are forced out of the skill. That attribute I'm referring to is one that lets the skill stun non-stop more or less. With this attribute, it is actually a pretty decent PvE tool. This skill is especially useful, even at circle 1 for Cyromancers as it lets you use your Ice Pillars as a long ranged contious AoE. One terrible choice that was made is to make this skill move fireball. Before you could constantly hit fireball to combo your Pressure into a bigger stronger AoE. By makiing it move it, it effectively makes this ability novalty. You can set it up by putting the fireball agaisnt a wall but it is very unpractical. If they felt it was too strong before, they merely should of lowered the damage output, not make the mechanic a pain to use.

Telekinesis. This is the coolest skill Pyscho has, but ugh, I wish it was actually viable for PvE. Any skill that can only hit one target pretty much makes it a bossing skill unless its cooldown is extremely low. Telekineses has a long cooldown and it doesn't work on bosses in any sensible capacity. Worse yet, it has a moderate fail chance. Why a skill that can only practically hit just one target has a fail chance is bonkers to me. It already isn't an effective leveling tool, you're going to make it unreliable too? I would aboslutely remove the fail chance in PvE and make its cooldown fairly small. It not being able to be used on bosses is a huge minus which means it needs to be fairly strong against mobs in a practical capacity to be worthwhile. This just isn't the case which is a huge shame.

Swap. Your only support skill that is really actually viable. It can position mobs where you want them to be. More importantly, it can position bosses. This is really nice for caging a boss in ice wall or putting a boss in an area that makes it easier to control. I do feel that this is a skill that should cap out at 10 or 5 though while offering full advantages as it is rather situational and will not see a ton of use despite being useful when you do use it.

Teleport. This skill needs a major, major buff. It requires extreme investment for the distance moved to be considered kite distance. It also should have a more predectable destintion, maybe you can use attributes to control this. One could make you teleport only backwards, another could make you teleport only fowards, etc. Most importantly though, this skill needs to cap out way sooner and offer way more distance per level. It also should be instant. It should not have a cast time at all. If such buffs aren't made, it's a waste of time and willl only exist as a novalty skill.

Magnetic Force. This is a skill that really should have been worthwhile. Like, really worthwhile. As it is now, you really don't have enough damage options as Pyscho, just the sp-hog pressure and its moderate cooldown. If Magnetic Force was good, it would help the class a lot. But as it is now, it is so bad, that I'd argue even Energy Bolt at level 5 is a better skill. I am serious. It does about the same damage with similar attribute investment and its way more reliable. That is horrid, unacceptable, and disgusting for a high rank skill like this to be so so so bad compared to even a circle 1 base class skill! It doesn't even work half the time, as in, enemies don't take damage or are unaffected. And when they do take damage, the damage is so insignifiant that it is mind boggling why anyone would think this was a good skill. The only redeeming factor is it sometimes stops enemy movement for a second or so. Woopie Do. Like everything else about this skill, the stun attribute is unreliable and thus novalty as it is only a 25% chance. This skill either should have way higher base damage or cause multiple collisions when it gathers mobs together. If higher base damage, the stun chance should be at least 50%. And most importantly, the skill shouldn't randomly fail to affect mobs. I don't understand how this skill is so bad unless it just wasn't tested at all.

Raise is a decent party tool I admit. I think the duration should be a bit longer though. I think it should at least do something to bosses, as again, this class gets continually shafted for boss fights. Maybe make the duration half as long or something, but having it do nothing against bosses just like every other skill more or less is really yet another negative to the class.

Gravity Pole needs to have a much wider absorption zone for it to be viable, especially since it leaves you unable to do anything which makes it absolutely useless for solo play. It at least needs to be super good in party play which it's lacking atm which is unacceptable. In general, the devs don't seem to realize how much better pure damage is 80% of the time in the game and as such, make CC and support skills way too lacking by comparison.

Pyschokino is a class that could be really good if its abilities were reworked, but so many abilities are so bad that I fear that this class will remain medicore at best which is really disheartening unless the Devs really give this class some love for PvE.

Chronomancer:

This is another class I really, really want to love. The idea of time magic is so cool and some of the abilities seem so innovative. Unfortunately, this class falls under support mage which IMC seems to have no sense of balance for.

Quicken. This ability is good in concept. I mean, it makes you auto attack faster and it makes your animations faster. My only complaint is it doesn't buff it enough. It should be more noticible than it is currently, and I know that only circle 2 is available but with all the other abilities, either this ability or another one should be brough to 10 offering full benefits at that point. I kind of feel like this should be one of the skills that can be maxed by circle 2, because damage really is the end all be all in this game more so than not and at least this skill can contribute to it.

Reincarnation is neat in concept but it really needs to be changed to affect mobs to be worthwhile. No, I don't think that would be OP as it justifies investing skill points into it. As of now, it feels like a novalty ability.

Stop. This is really a skill that should of made the class, but instead, again, I believe we have a PvE skill nerfed in the name of PvP. There is no good reason to make stopped enemies to be immune to damage. There just isn't. If that was OP, then why does Freeze let you do it? Why does Linker Hangman's Knot let you do it? Stop is simply a CC that is inferior to lower rank CC which is unacceptable to me. Stopping the flow of damage makes this skill so terribly medicore in PvE. Why even bother? Yes you can stack aoes and such while monsters are stopped, but you lose out on duration typically and other classes can stop mobs without making you have to jump through hoops just because. I can see Stop being OP in PvP but the core skill should not be influenced by PvP AT ALL. Simply make seperate effects for PvP so that you don't screw over classes like Chrono and Psycho.

I'd say Haste is in a similar boat to Quicken, but maybe worse so since it doesn't actually help damage. It's more of a convience skill really. I'd reccomend that more be given for less investment.

Back Masking. This is the coolest skill ever in concept. I would make the state that it is converted back to a bit more deeper in the past to make the effect more significant and noticible. I'd also be more forgiving in the cooldown as 5 minutes is pretty extreme for the pace this game's combat is at. Certainly a neat skill though.

Slow. I think Slow is good in concept. I just think it gives too little for its investment. Again, the values IMC places on CC vs. Damage is very very off base. When you give up damage for CC, it has to offer a whole lot. I don't feel like Slow is strong enough in what it does and it does take up a lot of investment on top of that.

The issue with Chrono is similar to Psycho. It's a class that should be really cool and worthwhile but because it's a support mage, it just is lacking because of IMCs perspective on support. Hopefully they give more love to support mage abilities (other than just Linker) but we'll have to wait and see.

Sorcerer:

Finally, the class I wanted to review more than any other as I really love the idea of a summoner class in a game like this. I can say right now, that a lot of skills need some work for the class, but the things that are working atm are pretty good for the most part.
--
Sub-Section: Summoning

The major skill of the class is Summoning which I'm giving a full sub-section to. This adds a new dynamic to your mage as it lets you summon a shadow beast to fight alongside you. You even get a new tab dedicated for actually using all those cards you've been collecting. The first thing I'd like to address is this whole high sp regen focus vs. the main cost of this skill, which is nullifying sp regen... I think, it's a bit counter productive that the skill both constantly drains sp AND negates natural sp regen. I just think the class would make a lot more sense in this area if you could utilize your SP Regen passives and SPR and such to help combat the SP drain of the Summoned Pet. Maybe other disagree, but I strongly feel that it goes against the class as it is now.

Now for the bigger part, 98% of the monsters you can summon need to be buffed a lot. The only summon that is at all viable is Templeshooter. This isn't to say that Templeshooter is just too stronger, but rather, Templeshooter is the only summon that makes the skill worthwhile at all which is very concerning to me. I know we haven't seen all the boss cards yet, but I don't feel that only Templeshooter should be viable. I think that is evidence that the Devs just haven't really looked into this mechanic enough. Templeshooter of course is mainly good because it has double attacks on its autos. No other summon does this. I'm not saying every summon should have double attack, but if they do have a single attack, which most do, they should offer other benefits instead which make it as good as Templeshooter's double attack overall. For example, higher damage per hit, bigger aoe, status effects attached, huge aoe, higher aspd, etc. There at a lot of ways one could make the attacks better for each boss. The point is, only Templeshooter's is really worthwhile atm which shouldn't be the case.

More on the general behavior of summons, I thik the AI should be a bit more aggressive or that custom AIs should be allowed to be made by users. As it is now, it's like barebones. It follows you around and you have to sort of drag it into mobs while dodging mobs and having aggro all mixed up, it kind of undermines the summon.

This leads into the skill Attack Ground. I feel like it's justified existing... But I feel the developers might be expecting users to just use this constantly rather than making a better AI which I find kind of...well...bad for the class and as an ethic. Which, the skill and how it interacts with the AI is iffy as is. It will sometimes run to the area, hit the enemy once and run back... Other times it'll sightracked by a mob on the way and ugh, the AI really needs a lot of work in this game. If the devs can't handle making a good ai, they really need to hire someone who specializes in that area as there are many abilities for many classes that rely on AI.

Hold would be good if it offered some way to make it switch back to follow mode. Also, and this is true for Attack Ground as well, but if you have your shadow beast and another summon out, only the latest summon follows the command. All summons should obey, that should go without saying and I hope that is just a bug.

Morph would be good if there were more than 1 card that was viable. I will say I'd make one change though. Make it so the secondary monster card only takes the stats of the first ability while keeping its unique properties. I notice (and this may be a bug) that sometimes it tries to copy the damage type of the skill or such as well. Really, how I think morph should opperate, is simply let the secondary monster inherent the star level of the main monster. I mean, that's basically what it is being used for anyways more often than not.

Obey. This is so, so bad. Like, mega bad. Like, ultra bad, like Flare bad from pyro. First off, the Boss skills are super lacking. Most of them are worse than the auto attack. This is because they have no real skill modifer. The only ones that are somewhat viable are ones that hit multiple times which shouldn't be the case. More so, the charge time is huge and the sp drain is extremely costly. Worse of all, you share the damage of the summon while on it. That just makes it so useless. At the very least, with that huge sp drain, it could at least let the boss tank some hits for you. Even if they make the skills stronger, if you have to take all the hits the big target of a summon takes, as a squishy mage, the skill will be worthless.

This reminds me of another issue the summons have, and it's also a doozie. When the summon is following you, it will forget to aim on its first hit. Now, you could have it simply aim before hitting, but this is a sympton of a bigger issue. The summon can't aim or move while it CHARGES its auto attack. Its auto attack. An auto attack shouldn't inhibit movement and direction. I think that's a huge flaw with the shadow summons that really should be addressed.

In conclusion, with Templeshooter, it is currently worthwhile enough, but it can and should be so so so much more and I hope they really look into revamping this mechanic and it sabilites.
--

Summon Salamion. This is a neat skill as it lets you have a secondary summon, but as such, it is plagued with a few of the beforementioned issues. But I'll point out some specfics for this summon. For one, either its attack or attack speed needs a boost because it is severely lacking atm, but more importantly, it needs, NEEDS to be able to aoe. Being able to poke just one target is virtually useless. Unless its auto can AoE it isn't really that useful at all. Other than that, it's neat in concept and hopefully will be effective later on.

Summon Familiar. This skill is a bit weak starting out but gets pretty strong with some investment. It does have a few flaws though. The AI for the familiars should be more aggressive for one. They should flock to attack things on attack in a very aggressive pattern. Also, the attribute to give it AoE Chance should go to at least 50%.. not 5% jeez, and it shouldn't be at a rate of 1% per level at 50 levels. The skill really really needs aoe support to be viable as a skill that takes several high ranks to be good.

Summon Servant. The buffs at max level are actually pretty nifty. I do have a major criticism though. 5 buff slots? That's insane demand. They need to heavily condense the slots the buffs take up. I honestly don't see the harm in it just being one big buff. I will say that I'm glad they condensed this skill into just 5 levels though for full benefit. They really, really need to do this for more abilities in the game.

Overall, Sorc has a lot of potential, I'm glad Templeshooter sort of makes it worth it but I really hope many aspects of the class and the summon system is reworked as there are a lot of areas that really need a lot of polish. Not just for Sorc mind you, but the AI in general for player generated creatures really needs a lot of work right now.

Final Notes

In general, the game really needs to put more weight on Support Mage skills for PvE. I feel that because a lot of them would be really good in PvP, that they are purposely made with that in mind which is SUCH a disservice for those classes. PvP needs to have completely seperate effects if it is to be considerated at all as there is a huge focus on PvE content amount for Tree of Savior.

With that said, there certainly are damage-oriented skills that are extremely lacking as well that really need to be buffed so that multiple builds will be viable. As it is now, there are simply certain skills that no one will take because they are so bad compared to other class options which is wasted potential.

Finally, I appreiate those who took the time to read through my review and feedback of the stated classes. I hope it was useful and leads to a better version of Tree of Savior. Thank you all! ♥
(ʘ ཀ ) Cᴏɴsᴜᴍᴇ Mᴇ—sᴏ ᴛʜᴀᴛ I ᴍᴀʏ Cᴏɴsᴜᴍᴇ Yᴏᴜ ( ཀ ʘ)
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#2
If they also found a way to implement range indicators for skills, it would be especially helpful to pyros/psychokinos. The skill descriptions are pretty lacking and it would be nice if I could cast psychic pressure at max distance to reduce chances of being interrupted.

I also feel that reflect shield is really helpful in terms of survival. From what I've seen it blocks out a boss's CC (one time), which is helpful for any dodging hiccups or just general late night sleepy gaming.
When 9 and 9 meet 9, the depths of reason shall stir.
When the seal of creation is broken, a voice like thunder shall sound,
and thou shalt know-
İmage
We Have Arrived
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#3
Great review. Chrono is a total disappointment.
İmage
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#4
You dont have linker tried yet?

Linker is AMAZING

LINKING STUFFS IS FUN
[Image: bApOGXY.jpg]

Panta : 08/07/2015



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#5
@Panta She did say Linker is good, but apparently hadn't tried it.

I definitely got a lot from this expansive feedback, as supportive mage is one of the roles I want most. I want to be very CC heavy; sacrificing attack power is fine with me, as long as the CC is reliable.

Agreed PvE/PvP skill effects must be separated. CC is pretty useless on trash mobs since they can be killed so fast, so CC should have far less weight in balancing. I suggest that to make balancing easier, IMC could treat bosses and players the same, separate from all the lesser monsters. At least for the time being, until PvP or general AI gets more development.

I feel like flat and percentage buffs are too split atm. I expect scalings will be added to a lot of the buffs/debuffs that give flat values, like Lethargy and Gung Ho, just like what happened with Deprotected Zone and Hexing. Most status effect success rates should also scale with stats.
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